Any comments about the children being separated from their parents in Texas? - Page 3
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Thread: Any comments about the children being separated from their parents in Texas?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by irondragon View Post
    Unfortunately these are not reasons to grant asylum. That is why we need immigration reform. I'm all for legal immigration.
    They are the very definition of asylum seekers. They live their lives in constant danger, have relatives murdered, have to flee with their kids, walk thousands of miles through total danger, innocent of any crime and used as bait as the heroin traffickers move the product. Imagine, you are so desperate that you would rather walk through Cartel country with your wife and babies than risk your situation. Would you dare? Really? Would you dare? Do you think it's a game to take advantage of the USA?

    A while back Assad used chemical weapons and the photos of the dozens of Syrian children had the Donald launching missiles. Where are the photos of the streets of Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador which we largely helped create? These people are robbed, raped and walk thousands of miles and they are not asylum seekers? They are not the Mexicans Trump railed about.... they don't even want to come here anymore.
    "They tried to bury us, but did not know we were seeds." Mexican proverb

  2. #22
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    The law that seems to be what right wingers are claiming gives them the right to rip children from their families is a human trafficking law. Obviously never intended to be used to separate families, nor was it ever used that way during the Obama administration. The separations are illegal under the very law they claim. I didn't think my disgust for the trump filth could get any deeper - I was wrong.

  3. #23
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    FACTS that need sharing!
    Michelle Martin, PhD Cal State Fullerton summed up the most important FACTS:

    There is so much misinformation out there about the Trump administration's new "zero tolerance" policy that requires criminal prosecution, which then warrants the separating of parents and children at the border. Before responding to a post defending this policy, please do your research...As a professor at a local Cal State, I research and write about these issues, so here, I'll make it easier for you. "

    Myth:
    This is not a new policy and was practiced under Obama and Clinton.
    FALSE. The policy to separate parents and children is new and was instituted on 4/6/2018. It was the brainchild of John Kelly and Stephen Miller to serve as a deterrent for undocumented immigration, approved by Trump, and adopted by Sessions. Prior administrations detained migrant families, but didn’t have a practice of forcibly separating parents from their children unless the adults were deemed unfit.

    https://www.justice.gov/…/press-rele…/file/1049751/download…

    Myth:
    This is the only way to deter undocumented immigration.
    FALSE. Annual trends show that arrests for undocumented entry are at a 46 year low, and undocumented crossings dropped in 2007, with a net loss (more people leaving than arriving). Deportations have increased steadily though (spiking in 1996 and more recently), because several laws that were passed since 1996 have made it legally more difficult to gain legal status for people already here, and thus increased their deportations (I address this later under the myth that it's the Democrats' fault). What we mostly have now are people crossing the border illegally because they've already been hired by a US company, or because they are seeking political asylum. Economic migrants come to this country because our country has kept the demand going. But again, many of these people impacted by Trump's "zero tolerance" policy appear to be political asylum-seekers.

    https://www.npr.org/…/arrests-for-illegal-border-crossings-…

    Myth:
    Most of the people coming across the border are just trying to take advantage of our country by taking our jobs.
    FALSE. Most of the parents who have been impacted by Trump's "zero tolerance" policy have presented themselves as political asylum-seekers at a U.S. port-of-entry, from El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras. Rather than processing their claims, they have been taken into custody on the spot and had their children ripped from their arms. The ACLU alleges that this practice violates the Asylum Act, and the UN asserts that it violates the UN Treaty on the State of Refugees, one of the few treaties the US has ratified. This is an illegal act on the part of the United States government, not to mention morally and ethically reprehensible.

    https://www.nytimes.com/…/meatpackers-profits-hinge-on-pool…

    Myth:
    We're a country that respects the Rule of Law, and if people break the law, this is what they get.
    FALSE. We are a country that has an above-ground system of immigration and an underground system. Our government (under both parties) has always been aware that US companies recruit workers in the poorest parts of Mexico for cheap labor, and ICE (and its predecessor INS) has looked the other way because this underground economy benefits our country to the tune of billions of dollars annually. Thus, even though the majority of people crossing the border now are asylum-seekers, those who are economic migrants (migrant workers) likely have been recruited here to do jobs Americans will not do.

    https://www.upi.com/…/Donald-Trumps-wall-ign…/2621477498203/

    Myth:
    The children have to be separated from their parents because there parents must be arrested and it would be cruel to put children in jail with their parents
    FALSE. First, in the case of economic migrants crossing the border illegally, criminal prosecution has not been the legal norm, and families have been kept together at all cost. Also, crossing the border without documentation is a typically a misdemeanor not requiring arrest, but rather a civil proceeding. Additionally, parents who have been detained have historically been detained with their children in ICE "family residential centers," again, for civil processing. The Trump administration's shift in policy is for political purposes only, not legal ones.

    See p. 18:
    https://www.aclu.org/…/ms-l-v-ice-plaintiffs-opposition-def…

    Myth:
    We have rampant fraud in our asylum process the proof of which is the significant increase we have in the number of people applying for asylum.
    FALSE. The increase in asylum seekers is a direct result of the increase in civil conflict and violence across the globe. While some people may believe that we shouldn't allow any refugees into our country because "it's not our problem," neither our current asylum law, nor our ideological foundation as a country support such an isolationist approach. There is very little evidence to support Sessions' claim that abuse of our asylum-seeking policies is rampant. Also, what Sessions failed to mention is that the majority of asylum seekers are from China, not South of the border. Here is a very fair and balanced assessment of his statements:

    http://www.politifact.com/…/jeff-sessions-claim-about-asyl…/

    Myth:
    The Democrats caused this, "it's their law."
    FALSE. Neither the Republicans nor the Democrats caused this, the Trump administration did (although the Republicans could fix this today, and have refused). I believe what this myth refers to is the passage of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act, which were both passed under Clinton in 1996. These laws essentially made unauthorized entry into the US a crime (typically a misdemeanor for first-time offenders), but under both Republicans and Democrats, these cases were handled through civil deportation proceedings, not a criminal proceeding, which did not require separation. And again, even in cases where detainment was required, families were always kept together in family residential centers, unless the parents were deemed unfit (as mentioned above). Thus, Trump's assertion that he hates this policy but has no choice but to separate the parents from their children, because the Democrats "gave us this law" is false and nothing more than propaganda designed to compel negotiation on bad policy.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/…/trump-democrats-us-border-m…

    Myth:
    This policy is legal.
    LIKELY FALSE. The ACLU filed a lawsuit against the Trump administration on 5/6/18, and a recent court ruling denied the government's motion to dismiss the suit. The judge deciding the case stated that the Trump Administration policy is "brutal, offensive, and fails to comport with traditional notions of fair play and decency." The case is moving forward because it was deemed to have legal merit.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/…/aclu-suit-over-child-separation…

  4. #24
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    FACTS that need sharing! (C0NT'D)
    Michelle Martin, PhD Cal State Fullerton summed up the most important FACTS:

    Myth: The parents and children will be reunited shortly, once the parents' court cases are finalized.
    FALSE. Criminal court is a vastly different beast than civil court proceedings. Also, the children are being processed as unaccompanied minors ("unaccompanied alien children"), which typically means they are sent into the custody of the Office of Refugee Resettlement (ORR), which is part of the Department of Health and Human Services (DHS). Under normal circumstances when a child enters the country without his or her parent, ORR attempts to locate a family member within a few weeks, and the child is then released to a family member, or if a family member cannot be located, the child is placed in a residential center (anywhere in the country), or in some cases, foster care. Prior to Trump's new policy, ORR was operating at 95% capacity, and they simply cannot effectively manage the influx of 2000+ children, some as young as 4 months. Also, keep in mind, these are not unaccompanied minor children, they have parents. There is great legal ambiguity on how and even whether the parents will get their children back because we are in uncharted territory right now. According to the ACLU lawsuit (see below), there is currently no easy vehicle for reuniting parents with their children. Additionally, according to a May 2018 report, numerous cases of verbal, physical and sexual abuse were found to have occurred in these residential centers.
    https://www.aclu.org/…/aclu-obtains-documents-showing-wides…
    Last edited by Another Texan; 06-24-2018 at 08:30 AM. Reason: C

  5. #25
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    Thank you AT for the handy reference to the facts. That's helpful. And the reminder to write a check to the ACLU. Thank you Bikeguy for that letter. That's alot.

    As for explaining to the parents what "illegal" means, I'm confident these parents expected crossing illegally would come with consequences.

    But not this. Nobody, not a citizen or an illegal immigrant expects to have his children put in a cage indefinitely when he gets arrested. Not convicted of a crime, but merely arrested. Not in America.

    I'll say this: There's alot wrong in the world and we can't fix it all for everybody. But these people didn't turn into hypotheticals in an argument about the law or immigration policy when they showed up on our soil asking for help.

    Even if we can't help them, do we put children in foster homes when parents walk past "no trespassing" signs to ask for help? Even if the law doesn't recognize the reasons all the parents give for seeking asylum, would I want this for my daughter if she were running from an abusive husband? Or looking for a job?

    But that's what people South of us expect now. Which may have been part of the explanation for this horror show, to make our border a worse alternative that what they're running from. I think the whole explanation is something else.

    It's the answer to the question I've had for Trump fans: If you find yourself in a room with the KKK and white nationalists, shouldn't you ask what put you both in the same room? How you got there? What you and those people have in common? Are you willing for those people to get what they came for in order for you to get what you think you deserve? Would the answer be the same if it weren't about race, but about jobs? Or religion?

    And now I know.

    Even if this is a full on fake news, digitalized lie, this is what Trump apologizers are willing to do to other people, to children, to get what they want. It's what Trump is willing to do to energize and keep their support. It's what Trump supporters who want something, but not this, give him the power to do to get for themselves whatever else it is they do say they want.

    And "this" is not the bombastic, "not literal, but serious" tough talk they like to hear but Trump probably won't get around to. This is what he'll do. These are the lies he'll tell once he's done it. These children's parents took a risk crossing a border illegally, but make no mistake: we're the ones doing this to them now that they're here. This is the plan Trump made, went to bed, then woke up to fulfill.
    Last edited by Murphette; 06-24-2018 at 02:05 PM.
    "I am not crazy and this is not normal" - me

    Michael Walsh! Michael Walsh! Michael Walsh! (it's worth a shot)

    "For every difficult and complicated question there is an answer that is simple, easily understood and wrong." H.L. Mencken


  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeguy View Post
    please explain americans who sneak over the border .
    lmao!!!

  7. #27
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    I have ZERO tolerance for reTHUGlican child abusing kidnappers, or people that support them. I'd just as soon deport all meddling hateful THUGlicans, to those countries, and take in all their immigrants. I'd call it the "Bye Felicia" program.
    THAT'S how I'd MAKE AMERICA GREATTER THAN IT'S EVER BEEN.

  8. #28
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    Pray tell, if genocide and loss of life is not a reason for asylum, what is? You never answered the question. Would you dare the walk with your family through cartel country out of life threatening country? Nah, most of us would try and hunker down in our hut and try and find food.
    "They tried to bury us, but did not know we were seeds." Mexican proverb

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