If you voted for a warmonger, you are a warmonger. ( i want to spell "period". lol - Page 3
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Thread: If you voted for a warmonger, you are a warmonger. ( i want to spell "period". lol

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kendra Hughes View Post
    Harrison has the right to post here as much as does anyone. He is not required to be any more open to feedback than are any of the rest of us. He has always made his point clear, and he is clearly using this as a platform to express his deeply held belief. He can do that. It doesn’t make him a troll and he is not required to take his transmissions through private messaging. Why am I standing up for him? For a couple of reasons; first because I balk everytime someone bosses someone else around. I have a very strong “You aren’t the boss of me,” gene and it tends to extend to “you aren’t the boss of him either.” Second, I think dissent is important. I think resistance is important. And unless there is an incitement to riot, I will almost always defend anyone’s right to express their opinion...even if I don’t like my or agree with it. I might debate it. I might outright defy it. But I will always defend their right to say it. Finally, and least importantly, I agree with him. I’m not nearly as militant as he is, but I certainly understand the demand for better quality leadership and the refusal to accept shitty options just because one is perhaps less shitty than the other. I feel the same way. I don’t know; maybe my refusal to vote for either shitty candidate makes me unpatriotic in some way. But then again, I did vote...just not for one of the candidates provided by the BS two party system. I don’t feel even a little bit bad about my decision to say “hell no...to either of these clowns.” My decision wasn’t made from a position of ignorance; I know my shit. My degree is in political science with an emphasis in public administration, and I was on a full scholarship through the poli-sci department based largely on my essays written in that department. I LOVED everything about politics...the leaders, the policy, the separation of powers, all of it. I don’t anymore. I am not required to participate in something I believe has become a farce. I participate on my terms, because I believe that’s the one remaining decent part of our system; we still have the ability to reject the direction it has taken. We are not required to participate in the same way, so I do no begrudge those of y’all who trudge to the polls and cringing-ly check one of the 2 boxes at the top of the page, but I don’t think doing so makes you a patriot. I don’t think it makes you a more reasonable citizen. I think it makes you contributors to a farce that can only work for as long as most folks agree to play the part of a patsy. But I don’t think you have to take your conversations about doing so through private messages. It’s cool if you discuss it all right here...and you aren’t even required to listen to any of my feedback about it. Love all y’all...play nice.
    Very well said Kendra. It's amazing how our views are so similar. Your educational background is so different from mine. I have my PhD from SHK (School of Hard Knocks) and was raised on a snake farm in Muskogee County, but have come to some of the same conclusions you so eloquently outlined above. Those who religiously vote for "their party" are a big part of the problem, not the solution. I too voted for that other guy. I don't even remember the Independents name. How our rotting, two-party system came up with the choice between Trump or Clinton is frightening to me.

    My newest summary is; the Democrats and Republicans are two sides of the same coin,,, a plugged nickel!

    Rant on fellow Geekfesters.
    Last edited by Max Boydstun; 12-16-2017 at 03:03 PM.
    "Ride On"

  2. #22
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    I suppose we've all been part of the "We need to get rid of the two party system" conversation. With both major parties becoming parodies of themselves, the time is right to get a truly progressive, "for the people" party going. I've seen a lot of the Sanders wing trying hard to become something more than fringe.
    Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. Mark Twain

    You can't fix stupid, but they are useful tools. Convince them you value their ideas and they will hate whoever you say.





  3. #23
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    To be fair, I remember seeing Harrison the day Iraq broke loose. He was one of the few that realized that the whole thing was bogus and understood what was under Sadam's thumb and the Balkanization of Iraq was an inevitable consequence. Few did.

    I was organizing (Alinsky) over and against Democratic Mayors and Governors in the 70's, that's where the poor people with the least power are. My frustration is with the yeah, everything and everyone (cept me) is a mess and my sole purpose is to point out how inadequate y'all are. Gimme some solutions. Is genocide in Iraq acceptable? Was it acceptable in the former Yugoslavia? Are tribalism and genocide in Africa and Cambodia AOK? Did my uncle and namesake die for nothing in WWII Europe? Do we ignore war monger Putin?

    Rock throwing is easy, solutions, not so much. I totally agree and get it... we wrongly broke Iraq and we've been owning it for too long. The dumbasses didn't know the Kurds, Sunnis and Shia that were under the dictators thumb. The great cold war victory toppled Tito and let loose the Bosnian, Serbian, Croatian explode into conflict and chaos. We need troops in Puerto Rico (with food, Sea Bees and the Corps of Engineers.

    Trump is in way over his head w N Korea (how about nuclear war mongers?), Israel/ Palestine, Russia. Our standing with Europe, Canada, Australia ( most reasonable, democratic, socially responsible countries in the world is on the rocks. Obama served with nothing but executive orders as weapons for 14 of his sixteen years. Our standing in the world was oh so much better. Can I defend all his actions? No. Did I have a map for him to get out of Iraq 100% without genocide? No. Did I watch in horror with what occurred Syria as we did less and then more militarily? Yes.

    Genocide, starvation, stampeding immigration without attempting to stop them have all the old world charm of watching a man beat his woman, a woman beat her child or a cop beating a drunk.

    Saying withdraw altogether from deterrence or intervention is easy and even sounds noble. It is also just as blind as not seeing the Kurds, Sunni and Shia right under the rock we are about to tip over.

    Solutions are elusive. Doing nothing except blame helps keep chaos going and is too damn arrogant and easy. I have been fond of quoting Mussolini's lament at being called Fascist... We are not Fascists, we are corporatists. Activism requires far more than criticism. It starts with action.

    What do you want to do about this? Just in today:

    "he Trump administration is prohibiting officials at the nation’s top public health agency from using a list of seven words or phrases — including “fetus” and “transgender” — in official documents being prepared for next year’s budget.

    Policy analysts at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta were told of the list of forbidden words at a meeting Thursday with senior CDC officials who oversee the budget, according to an analyst who took part in the 90-minute briefing. The forbidden words are “vulnerable,” “entitlement,” “diversity,” “transgender,” “fetus,” “evidence-based” and “science-based.”
    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/hhs-d...ry?id=51832679

    No the abc byline is not George Carlin
    Last edited by akerue; 12-16-2017 at 05:38 PM.
    "They tried to bury us, but did not know we were seeds." Mexican proverb

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by akerue View Post

    "he Trump administration is prohibiting officials at the nation’s top public health agency from using a list of seven words or phrases — including “fetus” and “transgender” — in official documents being prepared for next year’s budget.

    Policy analysts at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta were told of the list of forbidden words at a meeting Thursday with senior CDC officials who oversee the budget, according to an analyst who took part in the 90-minute briefing. The forbidden words are “vulnerable,” “entitlement,” “diversity,” “transgender,” “fetus,” “evidence-based” and “science-based.”
    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/hhs-d...ry?id=51832679

    No the abc byline is not George Carlin
    Banning "science-based" and "evidence-based" is insane enough, given that the CDC has to be both in everything they do, but WTF is "fetus" about? "Vulnerable"??? "Transgender" and "diversity" are pretty obvious - Diversity is a favorite target word for the KKK now, I imagine transgender is just too confusing for the right wing mind.
    Last edited by liquidwindows; 12-16-2017 at 05:50 PM.
    Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. Mark Twain

    You can't fix stupid, but they are useful tools. Convince them you value their ideas and they will hate whoever you say.





  5. #25
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    I didn't realize Obama "served" for 16 years.
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  6. #26
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    Well this has certainly been a more entertaining thread than anything I have read on here in a coon's age. So maybe y'all should get your noses out of joint more often.

    FWIW, I am shocked to find myself in agreement with Kendra and Max here. Although I find his screeching tiresome, Harrison has as much right to voice his opinion here as anyone else. And while I think there is a special place in Hell for most of the current flock of Republican politicians in Washington, I do think that the Democrats are still too busy with polling groups, causes du jour and cocktail fundraisers to take notice that the average working person in this country is one paycheck away from Lord-of-the-flies desperation.

    Side note: I keep wanting to thump Tom Perez up the side of his head and yell, "Bueller, Bueller? Is this thing on? Hello?" But enough about my fantasies.

    Kim is on to the right idea. Let the Gee Old Pee troglodytes fulfill every Ayn Rand masturbatory fantasy in Paul Ryan's beedy little head. It will only hasten the inevitable Mad Max cleansing of K Street and Wall Street and every other oak-paneled country club where the .00001% swill their Macallan on the rocks. Yes, some windows will get broken and my 401k will go tits up, but we're at that point where only a good fire can clear out the vermin and the leeches.

  7. #27
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    I guess I'm just confused, as usual, or my critical reading skills have bit the dust. Nowhere in this thread did I read that anyone objects to SOG posting. SOG had a problem with someone else joining the discussion. That's what I read.
    "I'll tell you this...No eternal reward will forgive us now For wasting the dawn." Jim Morrison

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by erastus View Post
    I guess I'm just confused, as usual, or my critical reading skills have bit the dust. Nowhere in this thread did I read that anyone objects to SOG posting. SOG had a problem with someone else joining the discussion. That's what I read.
    I suspect most tend to agree with SOG about the main idea of his post. We often have two horrible corporate approved candidates from which to choose in most elections. I was tickled to be able to vote for Sanders in the primary, but we all saw what happened there - not corporate approved so the super-delegate system was used from the beginning to thwart his campaign instead of eliminating a weak front-runner like it was originally designed to do. Polls showed the truth, and Sanders had the momentum, but the corporations got their candidate. When we have two war mongers running, and we vote for either one, we are still at fault. The lesser of two evils was a whole lot better than what we ended up with, but still would have been a road to hell. Presumably the slow lane as opposed to the no-speed-limit highway we find ourselves on now.

    I don't agree it makes someone who voted for the lesser evil a warmonger, but hyperbole is so common it tends to be immediately ignored. The real evil is a corrupt, bought and paid for two party system which is now right-wing on one side, and right-wing lite on the other. Those of us who actually stand on the left have no representation of any kind in either party.
    Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. Mark Twain

    You can't fix stupid, but they are useful tools. Convince them you value their ideas and they will hate whoever you say.





  9. #29
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    I do agree that both parties do their fair share of divisive rhetoric. So much so that hardly anything gets accomplished, while much damage is done. The money being gathered by members of both parties, along with the promise of future reward from the contributors has blinded them to the fact that they are supposed to be representing the concerns of citizen voters. What's scary is how the corruption has become normalized to the point that it is anticipated, verified, and nothing comes of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by liquidwindows View Post
    I suspect most tend to agree with SOG about the main idea of his post. We often have two horrible corporate approved candidates from which to choose in most elections. I was tickled to be able to vote for Sanders in the primary, but we all saw what happened there - not corporate approved so the super-delegate system was used from the beginning to thwart his campaign instead of eliminating a weak front-runner like it was originally designed to do. Polls showed the truth, and Sanders had the momentum, but the corporations got their candidate. When we have two war mongers running, and we vote for either one, we are still at fault. The lesser of two evils was a whole lot better than what we ended up with, but still would have been a road to hell. Presumably the slow lane as opposed to the no-speed-limit highway we find ourselves on now.

    I don't agree it makes someone who voted for the lesser evil a warmonger, but hyperbole is so common it tends to be immediately ignored. The real evil is a corrupt, bought and paid for two party system which is now right-wing on one side, and right-wing lite on the other. Those of us who actually stand on the left have no representation of any kind in either party.
    "I'll tell you this...No eternal reward will forgive us now For wasting the dawn." Jim Morrison

  10. #30
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    As long as we have a private enterprise political system, politicians will be forced by circumstance to become corporate/rich guy shills. It takes money to get anywhere in political Oz, and the only source of viable amounts are those with an over abundance of said cash. Those not willing to kowtow never even get started down the political yellow brick road (the yellow obviously refers to the gold said road is constructed from). Lets face it, Cletus and Homer are sadly lacking in private jets, off shore accounts, and high dollar prostitutes, and the end result is a lack of political clout.

    As long a private financing is the route to government, those who wish to serve will forever be forced to do the will of those who make the power available to them. Those who spurn these rules never even get to the starting blocks.

    Restricting political funding to public, tax funded and limited sources are the only solution, and those who buy power will never allow that to happen. Sadly, SOG's rants are not likely to end in our lifetimes. Like most things, to solve a problem, you must get to the root of the problem and those who benefit from this system have built an impenetrable wall around this tree.

    P.S. Back from sailing for Xmas and birth of first grandchild, but soon to return to the sheer bliss of not hearing the word Trump for weeks on end.
    Last edited by Hermit of Hogscald; 12-18-2017 at 04:08 AM.
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